‘Striving for Fairness and Equity in a Colonised World’ with Sammi Lillie

It is a fitting tribute for NAIDOC week, that I should be interviewing Sammi Lillie on ‘Talk The Walk’ this week.  In this conversation, Sammi honours the many Aboriginal women that have supported and vouched for her on her journey into social work with First Nations peoples.  Having just graduated from her Masters of Social Work, Sammi reflects on her placement experience of co-ordinating the Child Removal campaign at ANTAR Qld (Australians for Native Title and Reconcilitation).  Driven by personal family interests as well as deeply held values and a commitment to self determination, Sami shares the ingredients that have made practising Indigenous policy and advocacy work successful as a non-Indigenous woman.   Social work students considering their future placements will find this episode invaluable and current non-indigenous practitioners will discover pearls of wisdom for standing alongside our Indigenous brothers and sisters for recognition and justice.

In episode 24 of Talk the Walk we explore:

  • Why social work students should consider a placement experience in policy and advocacy work
  • The current state of affairs in relation to the removal of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children from their families
  • The state of child protection legislation in Queensland after adopting the principle of self determination in 2017
  • The need for a national inquiry into the over-representation of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children in out of home care
  • How you can support the Family Matters initiative to make a difference
  • Sammi’s greatest learnings working on Indigenous advocacy campaigns and policy development
  • The social work theories that influenced Sammi’s developing practice framework
  • Sammi’s concept of a ‘pro-Indigenous theory’ arising out of her interest in the work of Bob Pease on pro-feminism
  • Sammi’s personal connection to the Stolen Generations and the other motivating factors that make her so passionate about addressing discrimination
  • How Sammi has avoided major struggles in the work by acting with integrity, honesty and ‘cultural courage’
  • Knowledge that social workers should have but are just not getting
  • Unpacking the values underpinning Sammi’s work and life
  • The mentors and rolemodels that continue to inspire Sammi in her work
  • Reflections on proud moments, avoiding mistakes easily made, and Sammi’s plans for the future
  • Final advice for other social work students considering their placements

To listen to this episode simply click on the Play button below or listen via the Stitcher App for iOS, Android, Nook and iPad.
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You can also subscribe to podcast and blog updates via email from the Menu on the Home Page.

Don’t forget, if you or someone you know would make a great interview on ‘Talk the Walk’, send us an email from the Contact Page.

Things to follow up after the episode

ANTaR Queensland website and Sign Up here for their Newsletter

ANTaR National website and Sign Up here for their Newsletter

Social Work Focus, Autumn Edition, featuring Sammi’s article ‘Support for Self Determination imperative to address the over-representation of Indigenous Children in the Child Protection system’.  You will need to be a member of the AASW to access this resource.

Like Sammi’s Facebook Page ‘Ally Through Advocacy’

Sammi’s Reading List
Clare Tilbery, ‘The over-representation of indigenous children in the Australian child welfare system’, International Journal of Social Welfare.
Bob Pease,  ‘Men as Allies in Preventing Violence against Women: Principles and Practices for Promoting Accountability’.
Bindi Bennett, Sue Green, Stephanie Gilbert, Dawn Bessarab (eds), Our voices : Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander social work.
Bindi Bennett, Joanna Zubrzycki, J & Violent Bacon, ‘What Do We Know? The Experiences of Social Workers Working Alongside Aboriginal People’.
Christine Fejo-King & Linda Briskman,Reversing colonial practices with Indigenous peoples’
Christine Fejo-KingLet’s Talk Kinship.
English, Peter.  ‘Land rights and birthrights, (the great Australian hoax) : an examination of the rights of ownership of former Aboriginal land in Australia’.
Aileen Moreton- Robinson, Whitening Race, Aboriginal Studies Press, Australia.
Robyn Lynn, Rosamund Thorpe, Debra Miles, Christine Cutts, Anne Butcher, Linda Ford   Murri Way! Aborigines and Torres Strait Islanders reconstruct social welfare practice.
Tom Calma & Emily Priday, Putting Indigenous Human Rights into Social Work Practice’Australian Social Work.
Elizabeth Fernandez, ‘Child Protection and Vulnerable Families: Trends and Issues in the Australian Context’Social Sciences.

Contact Sammi at sammililli(at)gmail(dot)com

‘Opening Doors and Letting Stories Unfold’ with Anne Carrick

Anne Carrick working on Kunibidji country

In episode 20 of ‘Talk the Walk’, my guest today captures the essence of what it takes to move from a big city to a remote community in the heart of Arnhemland.   Social Worker, Anne Carrick spent three years immersed in community life and working in a social and emotional well-being program alongside 13 language groups and clans, each with their similar but different traditions living on Kunibidji land.  Anne says “This is one of the most multi-lingual communities in the world.”

If you’ve ever considered working remote or wondered what it is like, Anne’s stories, memories and lessons learned are pure gold.

In this episode we explore:

  • Anne’s early learnings working with Aboriginal people as a young social worker in Adelaide and Ceduna
  • The thinking and motivation behind Anne’s move to the Northern Territory
  • One article every Balanda (whitefella) needs to read before working in Aboriginal communities
  • A typical day working in the social and emotional wellbeing program in a remote Aboriginal community
  • The effects of daily life being exposed to frequent domestic violence and suicide attempts
  • The role Elders and leaders took in responding to domestic and family violence
  • The outcomes Anne was able to achieve assisting women, children and families
  • How a social work assessment process differs in a remote community compared to a more urban settling, and the role of Aboriginal workers
  • How the community shaped new understandings of mental health using the positive concept of living a life ‘worried well’
  • Anne’s experience of supervising social work students; what students can do to prepare themselves for a remote placement; and good advice for anyone thinking of working remote
  • Anne’s challenges and struggles; and what sustained her
  • The vision, principles and values inherent in Anne’s social work practice framework and how she advocated for this in a system which had different ideas about tackling social issues
  • Tracing Anne’s ethics and values back to early childhood
  • The wake up call that may help you prevent burnout
  • Accessing good supervision and support

Just some of the beautiful trees that spoke to Anne around the community and on homelands.

To listen to this episode simply click on the Play button below or listen via the Stitcher App for iOS, Android, Nook and iPad.
Listen to Stitcher
You can also subscribe to podcast and blog updates via email from the Menu on the Home Page.

Don’t forget, if you or someone you know would make a great interview on ‘Talk the Walk’, send us an email from the Contact Page.

Things to follow up after the episode

‘Kartiya are like Toyotas’ by Kim Mahood

“National Strategic Framework for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people’s Mental Health and Social and Emotional Well-Being 2017-2023, Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet (October 2017)

Social and Emotional Wellbeing Portal, Australian Indigenous HealthInfoNet

Contact Anne Carrick on anne475esp(at)hotmail(dot)com

‘A Gentle Approach to Justice-Doing in Supervision’ with Barry Sullivan

Welcome back to ‘Talk the Walk’ in 2018.  Supervision goes under the microscope in this podcast episode with my guest, Barry Sullivan.  Like many social workers, Barry came to the profession after more than 20 years in teaching.  Arriving in Darwin in 1998, Barry started out in school counselling, before joining Relationships Australia where he has been ever since.

In episode 19, Barry demonstrates that you don’t necessarily need decades of direct experience working with Aboriginal people to offer a good reflective space for supervision. Barry’s narrative approach offers a respectful way for supervisees to reflect on their practice, using their own values, beliefs and principles.

Barry recently completed a Masters in Narrative Therapy and Community Work with a focus on ‘justice doing’ and its relationship to clinical supervision.  Barry has supported a number of counselling staff in individual and group supervision including those working in remote Aboriginal communities in the Top End.  The gentle and humble approach Barry takes in his work comes across in this warm conversation.

In this episode, we explore:

  • What Barry has discovered is the biggest ethical dilemmas and the most common issues discussed in supervision by social workers in remote communities
  • The approach Barry uses in supervision to support practitioners in working through ethical issues, looking through a cultural lens
  • The history of Barry’s interest in justice and his research into justice-doing in supervision
  • assisting supervisees to reflect on their own white privilege
  • how conversations about justice-doing in the supervision room has influenced practitioners and their work with Aboriginal clients
  • why Barry is attracted to the narrative approach to supervision and the principles behind this approach
  • How Barry got started in the narrative approach to social work and counselling practice
  • The childhood mentor that influenced Barry’s justice-doing in social work and how he intends to hold onto this principle in his future work

We apologise for the audio variability in this recording, but hopefully it does not distract from your listening pleasure.  Enjoy!

To listen to this episode simply click on the Play button below or listen via the Stitcher App for iOS, Android, Nook and iPad.
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You can also subscribe to podcast and blog updates via email from the Menu on the Home Page.

Don’t forget, if you or someone you know would make a great interview on ‘Talk the Walk’, send us an email from the Contact Page.

Things to follow up after the episode

Download Barry’s paper for the Masters of Narrative Therapy on ‘justice doing’ in supervision here
WRITTEN ESSAY NARRATIVE PRACTICE AND RESEARCH SYNTHESIS (1)

Writings by Vikki Reynolds

Contact Barry Sullivan at work on barry(at)ra-nt(dot)org(dot)au
or privately on barrysullivan96(at)yahoo(dot)com

“Every Child is Worth It” with Doug Dunlop

Today’s conversation on ‘Talk The Walk’ has many gems, but particularly for counsellors and social workers interested in developing an evidence based program that is also culturally safe.  Doug Dunlop is a senior counsellor with the ‘Holding Children Together’ program based in Alice Springs and working with surrounding town camps.  Doug is part of the team leading a rigorous evaluation process, developed and mentored by the Australian Childhood Foundation and a Cultural Advisory Group.  In episode 17 of Talk the Walk, we also get a glimpse into the man behind the work; his historical roots, his life experience, the values and principles he brings to his trauma-informed, culturally-safe practice framework.
There is nothing quite like ‘Holding Children Together’ elsewhere in Australia and other organisations are starting to take notice of the Care Team model adopted by this child and family counselling service.  The road to evidence-based practice is long, requires collective good-will and a large investment, but like Doug says “every child is worth it”.

In this episode, we explore:

  • Considerations for Doug arriving from New Zealand to work in Australia’s Central Desert communities
  • the stark differences working with Maori and Aboriginal children beginning with engagement in therapy
  • understanding trauma informed practice with Aboriginal children and their families
  • the Care Team model integral to ‘Holding Children Together’ (HCT)
  • a typical day in the life of a counsellor
  • how HCT is upholding cultural safety and working towards evidence based status
  • a sparking story that makes the work all the more worthwhile and why great outcomes cannot be tied down to one intervention
  • the challenges of working within a Care Team model
  • insights into the complexities of reunification with family when a lot of intervention has focused on establishing relationships with carers
  • what makes Doug so passionate about his work and the values he holds most precious
  • important considerations of cultural world views in cases of Aboriginal children in foster care which has implications for reunification
  • awareness of white privilege and seeing the world through the eyes of others
  • Moments from Doug’s early life that have influenced the values underpinning his practice
  • How Holding Children Together manage the exposure to trauma in counsellors
  • Hopes for the future of evidence-based counselling services and why it’s a good process to undertake

To listen to this episode simply click on the Play button below or listen via the Stitcher App for iOS, Android, Nook and iPad.
Listen to Stitcher
You can also subscribe to podcast and blog updates via email from the Menu on the Home Page.

Don’t forget, if you or someone you know would make a great interview on ‘Talk the Walk’, send us an email from the Contact Page.

Things to follow up after this episode

Contact Doug Dunlop at doug(at)ra-nt.org.au

Holding Children Together web page

Burnout and Vicarous Trauma:  An employee defect or a yearning for collective action for social justice?

If you work in the area of trauma counselling, chances are you have an organisation or colleagues keeping a watchful eye out for the first signs and symptoms of burnout or vicarious trauma.

In my workplace we have to complete two tests every year – the Compassion Fatigue Self Test for Practioners and the Trauma and Attachment Beliefs Scale.  We also have regular training so that employees can identify the symptoms in each other.

While it might be considered admirable for our organisations to have a Vicarious Trauma Policy and working proactively to promote the health and wellbeing of its employees, what is it that is really happening here?  And what effect is this having?

If someone returns high results to vicarious trauma testing, the onus is on the individual to address it.  They are encouraged to revisit their self care plan or self refer to the Employee Assistance Program.  This kind of response pathologises the problem and locates it within the individual, that the counsellor is somehow defective or not strong enough.   It follows then that the client is to blame for somehow causing an injury by sharing their story with us.   Vikki Reynolds says using self care as an antidote for burnout “does nothing about the social determinants of health for people….  The problem is not in our heads or our hearts, but in the social world where clients and workers struggle with structures of injustice.”  Vikki argues that assuming a position where clients are seen to be hurting us is not an act of accountability at all.

In Darwin where I practice, we are surrounded by some of the worst cases of injustice in Australia such as the mistreatment of youth in detention, the highest rates of removal of Aboriginal children from their families and concerning numbers of child abuse within the foster care system.  Not far from us, refugees on Manus Island continue to suffer.

Sometimes it can feel overwhelming to hear the sad and heartbreaking stories of abuse and violence and the impact this has had on our clients.  And yes, I see and hear the impacts of intergenerational trauma outside my house; it’s difficult to escape it sometimes.  However, I return a normal vicarious trauma result.  I also hear inspiring stories of skills, knowledge and strengths of survival; stories of people speaking out to the Royal Commission so that the same thing doesn’t happen to other people; stories of people taking action to reduce the isolation caused by their poverty and homelessness.  I admire the steps of resistance my clients make against systems of injustice.  Indeed, clients do not hurt us, but instead inspire us, teach us and critique us says Reynolds.

The biggest critique our clients could legitimately make is why we, as workers, are not ‘fostering collective sustainability’*, coming together in solidarity to challenge the institutions and systems which marginalise and victimise our clients.

Indeed the collective silence of social workers in Australia is more likely to lead to my potential burnout, due to my frustration with the profession.  Why are social workers not out on the streets marching together to get Manus Island refugees to Australia?  Why are we silent in our support of our Indigenous comrades in the fight for Recognition?  Why are we standing back and allowing removal of Aboriginal children from families to go up and up?  Isn’t that why we entered this profession in the first place, to make a real difference to the social structures of injustice?  I was once accused of getting too close to a community because I cared too much, and was threatened to be removed by my employer.  However I was proud of my role as an advocate for social justice for the community and its people.

Social justice activism is a protective factor against vicarious trauma.  It’s not our clients that are hurting us.  It is our silence and inaction.

Perhaps the care we can show our colleagues is not to watch out for signs or symptoms of vicarious trauma in the workplace, but to gather in solidarity around shared ethics of social justice and collective accountability.  Let’s get out on the streets and do what we signed up for.

*‘Fostering collective sustainability’ is one of the guiding intentions advocated by Vikki Reynold in Justice Doing in Community Work and Therapy.

‘Magic Wand Dreaming’ with Emily Hapea

What’s it like to walk in two worlds, as a non-Indigenous social worker in a remote Aboriginal community, fresh out of university?

While that might seem daunting, Emily Hapea saw the opportunity for growth, developing authentic relationships and honouring the truth of First Nations Australians.

Emily lives and works in Cairns in northern Queensland.   In this episode of ‘Talk the Walk’, Emily shares the journey that has shaped her understanding of trauma-informed practice influenced by experiences of institutional racism and a denial of Australia’s black history.

Like many social workers who are expected to wave a magic wand, Emily prefers to draw on deeply engrained values of equality, compassion for others and a sense of justice, to create a way of working that sustains her.

In this refreshing conversation, we explore:

    • The beginnings of Emily’s social justice journey from childhood; the influences and myths that have shaped her ethics and values in life and work
    • Why Emily believes that it is impossible to be born in Australia and avoid being racist
    • Seeing intergenerational trauma as a truth, not a theory
    • Emily’s framework for social work practice
    • Beginnings and sparkling moments from working with vulnerable Aboriginal women seeking to get Child Protection out of their life, working within Noel Pearson’s Welfare Reform agenda for Cape York, and an innovative accommodation and early intervention support service for new mums
    • The biggest learnings of being thrown in the deep end, fresh out of university into Cape York communities
    • What can help when starting work in a new cultural context and the importance of developing relationships with cultural mentors
    • Differences between social work in Indigenous and mainstream contexts
    • The knowledge and skills Emily developed that she wouldn’t have, if she hadn’t worked with Indigenous communities
    • Advice for social workers new to the field
    • The sickness of denial about Australia’s true history and owning our racism, contrasted with Aboriginal people’s resilence and passion
    • What Emily would do if she had a magic wand

To listen to this episode simply click on the Play button below or listen via the Stitcher App for iOS, Android, Nook and iPad.
Listen to Stitcher
You can also subscribe to podcast and blog updates via email from the Menu on the Home Page.

Don’t forget, if you or someone you know would make a great interview on ‘Talk the Walk’, send us an email from the Contact Page.

Things to follow up after the episode

Trauma Trails’ by Professor Judy Atkinson

Why weren’t we told’ by Henry Reynolds

Jackie Huggins

‘Allowing Voices to be Heard’ with Toni Woods

An advocate for ‘two way’ relationships and “not being a seagull” – Toni Woods

Do you know what it’s like to meet up with an old friend you haven’t seen for years and feel like you picked up exactly where you left off?   That’s what my conversation felt like this week on Episode 9 of ‘Talk the Walk’.  Nine years after crossing paths on our respective journeys, I reconnected with an old friend and colleague, Toni Woods.

Toni now lives in Canberra and works as an Implementation Specialist with the Intensive Family Support Service (IFSS) which sees her travelling back to the Northern Territory to provide practice coaching with her team.  Prior to that Toni worked in remote Aboriginal communities supporting women and children living with domestic and family violence, project co-ordination of child-friendly safe houses and community development with urban Aboriginal school communities around Darwin.  Toni has worked alongside Aboriginal people in supervision and management, developing creative-culturally safe educational resources, training and mentoring, project management, counselling and family support.   She is gearing up to head off to the SNAICC Conference in Canberra next week, to support her colleague Faye Parriman in presenting her amazing resource and share their current work with the IFSS project.   Be sure to say hello, if you happen to be there!

I hope you enjoy my conversation with Toni as we look back on almost a decade of her incredible development work.

In this episode, we explore:

  • Toni’s yearning to respond to social injustices and human rights violations she observed after arriving in Darwin and the NT Emergency Intervention was introduced
  • What Midnight oil, nursing strikes and Jon Lennon has to do with Toni’s commitment to these ethics and values
  • How challenging moments are actually opportunities for good work to happen (especially when you have the courage to talk to the Federal Opposition Leader!)
  • Hearing stories from people, ownership of story and the dilemmas around sharing story when there are issues of collective injustice
  • The joy of work that advocates for and engages local community members in making decisions about their own families and communities
  • The skills and knowledge needed to co-ordinate an urban Aboriginal community project to improve school attendance; and the learnings and outcomes achieved
  • Lessons learnt about the importance of the implementation phase in running a successful project
  • The role of the Parenting Research Centre and the development of culturally safe resources available through the Raising Children network
  • Toni’s long established collaborative relationship with Senior Aboriginal woman Faye Parriman and the cross-cultural work they have achieved together
  • How the Yarning Mat tool came about through Faye’s visionary dream, a tool to engage Aboriginal parents in the Intensive Family Support Service; an introduction to the elements and how it is used from engagement and assessment to review and closure.
  • Reflections on Toni’s ‘two-way working’ relationship with Faye and the elements that built respect and trust

To listen to this episode simply click on the Play button below or listen via the Stitcher App for iOS, Android, Nook and iPad.
Listen to Stitcher
You can also subscribe to podcast and blog updates via email from the Menu on the Home Page.

Don’t forget, if you or someone you know would make a great interview on ‘Talk the Walk’, send us an email from the Contact Page.

Things to follow up after the episode

The Parenting Research Centre

The Raising Children Network

Faye Parriman on the history of the Yarning Mat

National Implementation Research Network

The 2017 SNAICC Conference

Contact Toni Woods on LinkedIn or via email at twoods(at)parentingrc.org.au